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November 28, 2006

Laying down aces

by Otis

I do not write strategy posts. I do not write theory posts. I write stories. I do this because, despite the fun I have playing poker, I'm better at telling stories than explaining how I play or offering helpful advice to people looking to improve their game. With that disclaimer, the past six weeks have been pretty interesting. I've laid down pocket aces three times on the flop. As each of the laydowns have resulted in hours of post-hand analysis, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts. I'm not looking for a pat on the back. I'm just curious.

Location: The Spring Hotel
Game: $1/$/2 NL

I'm under the gun plus one with pocket aces. The Dancer raises to $9 under the gun. I make it $25 to go. The small blind, a pro (yeah, a pro in a $1/$2 game--it's that profitable) drops five red chips in the pot and makes a groan that suggests he's calling with a hand he knows is beat, but is hoping to hit. The Dancer calls. Both players check in the dark. The flop comes J96 with two hearts. I make it $75 and the pro raises to $250. At this point, I'm confident I'm still ahead of him, but our stacks aren't small and I know there's a good chance we'll be playing for all our chips. The pro started the hand with around $800. I had just more than $600. The Dancer had close to $400.

I'm on the verge of making a decision about whether to push when The Dancer announces he's all in. It's now quite clear that I'm no longer ahead and probably way behind. I immediately put The Dancer on a set. Furthermore, I know that, even if I jam, the pro has to call. After a minute or so of thought, I mucked.

Now, looking back, this was the easiest of the three laydowns (and the best). As it turned out, The Dancer had a set of nines. The pro had KT suited in hearts for the second nut flush draw and gutshot straight draw. The result: An ace fell on the turn, giving me top set (had I stayed in the hand). The river was a heart, giving the pro a flush and the pot.

In retrospect, I'm happy with how this turned out. Had the players not checked in the dark and one of them had bet, I could've driven the draw out of the pot. In that case, I still would've been behind, but justified in the suck-out I would've laid on the Dancer.


Location: The Gaelic Game
Game: $1/$2 NL (but playing with no max and more like a $2/$5 game)

I was in the middle of a bad night. The game was drunk (I was not), the waitresses were drunk and had spilled two drinks on me, and I was stuck. The max on the game had been lifted a few weeks before and the stacks on the table ranged between $400 and $2,500. I'd been card dead most of the night and the victim of a couple bad suckouts. The table was rowdy. UPS/Dan Heimiller look-alike had just dropped a $2,000 pot to Rhodes after bluffing into Rhodes' pocket aces on a scary board.

I'm under the gun plus one with pocket aces. Rhodes, still high from scooping the pot, makes it $12 to go. I pop it to $35. The big blind, a nit, called. Rhodes called. The flop came down KQx rainbow. Both players checked to me and I made it $80 to play. The nit folded and Rhodes quicky raised to $200. The check-raise was frustrating and a little scary. Four hands seemed likely: KK, QQ, KQ, or AK. The only one I could beat was AK.

Here's where I fucked this one up: I should've folded or jammed there. It's one or the other and after thinking about it for a while, I recognize that. I was into the hand for a little more than $100. Rhodes had me easily covered (I had about $800 to his $2000). Instead--and damned if typing this doesn't make me feel more like an idiot--I min-raised. At the time, the logic went like this: Represent the set, put him to a decision. Looking back, there are so many holes in that logic that I'm ashamed to even be writing this post. Of course, Rhodes started monologuing. "You're so tight. What is it? A set? What a cold deck." After three full minutes, Rhodes announced, "I'm all in."

My cards hit the muck before he finished his sentence.

I thought about this hand more than any of the other three. I made a lot of mistakes in the hand, the min-raise being the most damning of them.

At the time, Rhodes said to me, "You were beat." I didn't know whether to believe him at the time. Later, and for reasons I can't specify here, I developed intelligence that strongly suggests Rhodes held KQ and that I was drawing slim had I stayed in the hand.


Location: The Golden Moon
Game: $2/$5 NL

I'd been playing a good game for a little more than four hours. It was a holiday weekend and the game was loose. I'd put together a decent profit playing a mixture of tight-aggressive and loose-aggressive poker. I'd made only one mistake the entire afternoon and it only cost me $50. I was with relatives who were ready to leave. As they racked up, I decided I'd play...one...last...hand. By the time the cards were dealt, my brother-in-law was standing over my shoulder. I peeked at the first card. Ace of diamonds. "Okay, I thought. Unless the next card is an ace or a king, I'm getting up." Sure enough, ace of spades.

There's one limper in front of me and I make it $25 to play. The small blind (a sweating, limping, wreck of a man who had already been to the ATM to re-load and had since quadrupled his stack with some very aggressive play) called and the limper called. The flop came down 993 rainbow. I wasn't worried about the limper (a lady who never bluffed, called a lot of raises, and folded to almost any bet). The small blind, though, worried me. I watched him as the flop came down and he flinched. It was barely noticable, but it was there. Both players checked to me and I bet $60.

Before my chips hit the felt, the small blind was grabbing for his stacks. He pushed out $260 and put his chin on his chest. The limper folded and I went in the tank. The bet smelled like a bluff. The overbet was fishy. I knew I still had around $700 left to play with. A re-raise would commit me. Just calling would leave me blind. Based on what I'd seen, the guy's range here was very wide. Putting him on a hand was nearly impossible. I could only narrow it down to TT, JJ, 33, or any hand with a nine it.

Then I did something I rarely do. I tried to get the guy to talk. I asked if he had the nine. No response. No movement. I looked for a tell that G-Rob and BadBlood use all the time. It was absent. I wanted to hear the guy's voice, so I asked him how much he had left. I already knew he had around $900 sitting in front of him. He mumbled something and a local at the table announced it was around $900 (I shot the dude a dirty look, but he didn't care that he was getting in my hand).

After another minute of thought, I mucked face-up and told the guy to have a good weekend. The guy pushed his cards into the muck and dragged his pot.

In retrospect, I don't like this laydown as much as I did when I first made it. I think I was happy with my profit for the day and didn't want to lose a $1,600 pot in front of my in-laws. I think there was a 50/50 chance I was behind. Given the chance to re-play the hand, I think I should've kept playing the hand. I think if I had called, I might have been able to pick up something on the turn. Or maybe not. Maybe I should've jammed. I don't know. I've only been thinking about this hand for five days, so maybe I'll find some enlightenment after some more thought.

***

So, there are three hands that I either played well or badly. You tell me.

| Poker Theory
Comments

I really like all 3 laydowns, and I don't know that I'd be able to make them myself. At least w/o losing at least a little more money.

In the third one, you may very well have had the best hand, and it SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCKS leaving money on the table, but at the same time, you walked away with a profit, and losing the money would've plagued you a lot more than whether or not your aces were good.

I also like your approach to blogging. I was afraid I could never get any readers w/a storytelling approach and no real profound strategy talk, but you're one of the biggest out there, so that's encouraging!

Posted by: WindBreak247 at November 28, 2006 3:01 PM

I probably lay down the Aces in the first hand, but I'm not sure I do it in either of the other two. And I probably lose money because of it.

Posted by: CJ at November 28, 2006 3:55 PM

The first one is a definite good fold, for all the reasons you describe.

The second one I wouldn't have folded, because as you said, I would have not min-raised - all my chips are in the pot there after he bets into me. That being said, the fact that he is willing to raise you all in after you min raise him? You're up against a couple hands - baby set, or two pair. KK or QQ probably smooth calls or puts it all in much faster. Other option is JT of a suit? Doubtful, though.

The third one, I'm not sure. I'm not sure I like that one as much either. Depends on what his range of hands is, really - I could see people do that with an underpair like 88 or 77, too. He didn't re-raise you preflop; MOST aggressive people will do that with JJ, and even TT. I'd rule JJ out here. But, the fact that he was grabbing for his chips as fast as he could USUALLY tells me that he has a monster hand. I just don't know. I don't know that I lay it down here, but I don't know that I reraise it all in, either. I'd just need more information on what his range really was.

Intuition tells me it was 88 or 77.

Posted by: Maigrey at November 28, 2006 4:44 PM

Two things:

1. Rhodes. Nice. Wish I thought of that one. In fact, I should have.

2. Hand #3 at the Moon. As played, I think it is a fold. But why bet the flop here? In this case, you're either way ahead or way behind. Before making that continuation bet, ask yourself if you can sweat a check raise. And this is where reads on players are so important.

I may have played this hand differently, keeping the pot small on that board. Either you need to catch a 2-outer, or he does. But if this is the type of player who's got a read on you for being able to make a laydown, then maybe you go over the top of him. But given the uncertainty, I'm not going to bet that flop.

Check calling the turn/river may be an option dependent on his bet size - you do have position. You also may have bluffing outs with scare cards like a K or Q. Would he lay down trips?

You could get to see the hand's conclusion for less money than it would cost to call the check-raise. Not aggressive poker for sure, but I think as played, you have to fold it.

Tough one for sure.

Posted by: BadBlood at November 29, 2006 7:30 AM

Hands #1 and #2 I like the fold, but I have trouble letting go of aces in Omaha some nights (i.e. while drinking).

Hand #3, not so much. I'd go into detail but that's something done by those people who actually know what they're talking about, so instead I'll leave you a quote.

"Always Min-Raise Yer Aces!!!"

- Bobby Bracelet

Posted by: Drizztdj at November 29, 2006 7:42 AM

I'm with Blood on the third hand. Betting into the flop is only opening the box. Checking behind puts the onus on him to take the lead, if he thinks he has a hand. Then you can reckon what he thinks you have based on the size of your bet.

That being said, I also don't think any hand with a nine in it is quite, right, because that gives him too wide a range of nines. Do you think that 93o could be in play, with him calling $23 preflop (that's a serious question, not snark)?

Just playing blind-internet-blog-comment-poker, he probably has a wider range of pairs than you give him, and a narrower range of hands with nines in them. I also don't think that calling his checkraise yields no information. You are saying to him, "I have a hand that is worth defending," and it is on him to try and define his hand better on the turn.

Up through the flop, you've played the hand the same way that you could be playing a big ace or a big pocket pair, big raise from EP followed by a continuation bet. Do you think that his checkraise is an attempt to shake the float loose? Is he a smart, aggressive player, or just aggressive? The more I write, the more I think his checkraise was defensive (aren't most flop checkraises defensive?)

Posted by: David at November 29, 2006 9:11 AM

Hand 1) I still like the fold as much as I did the first time I heard about it. There is NO QUESTION you're beat. Plus, a very good chance the the pro has exactly that kind of draw. As you say, clearly the easiest of the 3 folds.

Hand 2) This player, "Rhodes", you know him as well as I do. Knowing the player matters more than anything here. I'd have put KQ at the TOP of his possible holdings. For players reading your story who haven't met this particular player...it's a very important detail. Very good fold.

Hand 3) Hate to sound like a broken record...but I totally agree with Maigrey. His range of hands seems wayyyyy larger than what you're giving him credit for and, thus, you're chances of having the best hand are far better than 50/50. I call the bet...and the let him bluff off the rest of his stack on the turn.

Posted by: G-Rob at November 29, 2006 11:12 AM

OK, let me introduce an entirely different line into the discussion; really more of a Devil's Advocate take than anything: is folding the right thing in the aggregate as well as for your metagame there? By the latter question I mean does this induce aggressive bluffs at the right time for you. I'm assuming that your table image is not of one who can be bullied (unless when you're with a bunch of your fellow blogger dopes you just tool us). You'll have to answer this.

By the former (I don't know if this makes any sense or not, so go with me), if you could choose now, which would net you the most: folding all three, shoving all three, or some combination of evaluation then deciding? Would be interesting to run some numbers, if anyone has the energy.

Oh, and I'm guessing I go busto with all three, maybe the second hand as the only exception, possibly. Maybe.

Posted by: CC at November 30, 2006 6:16 PM

Hand 1: Reraise more preflop, especially with how deep you are. Also, start reraising more preflop if Mr. Pro there can set mine you with a cold call.

Hand 2: I think pushing and folding are the two worst options for the hand, with pushing being the worst. Are live players really that bad that they call with less than AA on that board? I would definately advocate calling and seeing what he does on the turn over any other option there.

Hand 3: Either fold or call depending on your image. Fold if tight/ jam flop if image is that of a lagtard. I also wouldn't fault calling and jamming any turn card.

Posted by: Wes at December 1, 2006 2:17 AM

1) Easy fold.
2) Probably call, if for anything meta-game purposes.
3) Call, with the intention of calling or betting all-in on the turn.

Posted by: Terrence at December 1, 2006 12:35 PM
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